Hi all,
So, I've noticed that a lot of the time, the executions people post here have the condemned (usually women) be either naked (virtually always historically inaccurate), or in shift and sometimes a cap (how things were done in real life). When it comes to the execution of nobility/the wealthier class, my fantasies/musings lean more towards something just as inaccurate as naked executions: meeting their fate while in everyday clothing (or even court dress). As in, a noble from some time between 1480 and 1870 is going about their day dressed in typical clothing for their rank and era, when they are suddenly arrested, convicted, and executed without having the chance to change into something more... fitting.

What I would like to know is how you think things like panniers, ruffs, and other items of clothing that no prisoner would have worn to the scaffold would affect the practicalities of execution. For the purposes of brevity, I will limit this to the two most common across history: hanging and beheading. The address below shows some examples of under-dress frameworks that could pose an issue, and there are other questions regarding the items that immediately spring to mind.

https://www.behance.net/gallery/6808...k-under-skirts

If you had to behead someone who was wearing a ruff and/or an Elizabethan bumroll/wheel skirt, how would you alter the standard axe & block or kneeling & sword arrangement?
If you wear going to hang someone wearing an 18th century pannier dress, how would you modify the gallows to accommodate a victim who takes up as much space as two-three people? For that matter, how would you change a guillotine to accommodate the same issue?

 

Quote by WPC

Hi all,
So, I've noticed that a lot of the time, the executions people post here have the condemned (usually women) be either naked (virtually always historically inaccurate), or in shift and sometimes a cap (how things were done in real life). When it comes to the execution of nobility/the wealthier class, my fantasies/musings lean more towards something just as inaccurate as naked executions: meeting their fate while in everyday clothing (or even court dress). As in, a noble from some time between 1480 and 1870 is going about their day dressed in typical clothing for their rank and era, when they are suddenly arrested, convicted, and executed without having the chance to change into something more... fitting.

What I would like to know is how you think things like panniers, ruffs, and other items of clothing that no prisoner would have worn to the scaffold would affect the practicalities of execution. For the purposes of brevity, I will limit this to the two most common across history: hanging and beheading. The address below shows some examples of under-dress frameworks that could pose an issue, and there are other questions regarding the items that immediately spring to mind.

https://www.behance.net/gallery/6808...k-under-skirts

If you had to behead someone who was wearing a ruff and/or an Elizabethan bumroll/wheel skirt, how would you alter the standard axe & block or kneeling & sword arrangement?
If you wear going to hang someone wearing an 18th century pannier dress, how would you modify the gallows to accommodate a victim who takes up as much space as two-three people? For that matter, how would you change a guillotine to accommodate the same issue?

https://www.behance.net/gallery/6808...k-under-skirts -- This page could not be found.

 

Sorry, address got abbreviated somehow:https://www.behance.net/gallery/68083499/Framework-under-skirts

 

Assuming the noble lady will be wearing a pannier for her hanging, i will prepare the scaffold as such that the entire frame under her colapses or change the shape of the trapdoor, extending it on the sides.

Beheading with any of these underskirt shouldn’t be a problem.

 

Quote by sks88

Assuming the noble lady will be wearing a pannier for her hanging, i will prepare the scaffold as such that the entire frame under her colapses or change the shape of the trapdoor, extending it on the sides.

Beheading with any of these underskirt shouldn’t be a problem.

You don't think they might cause a problem kneeling low enough to place their neck on a block, or make strapping them down/placing them on a guillotine a bit difficult (depending on time period)?
Also, how would you account for a ruff around the condemned's neck?

 

Quote by WPC

Hi all,
So, I've noticed that a lot of the time, the executions people post here have the condemned (usually women) be either naked (virtually always historically inaccurate), or in shift and sometimes a cap (how things were done in real life). When it comes to the execution of nobility/the wealthier class, my fantasies/musings lean more towards something just as inaccurate as naked executions: meeting their fate while in everyday clothing (or even court dress). As in, a noble from some time between 1480 and 1870 is going about their day dressed in typical clothing for their rank and era, when they are suddenly arrested, convicted, and executed without having the chance to change into something more... fitting.

What I would like to know is how you think things like panniers, ruffs, and other items of clothing that no prisoner would have worn to the scaffold would affect the practicalities of execution. For the purposes of brevity, I will limit this to the two most common across history: hanging and beheading. The address below shows some examples of under-dress frameworks that could pose an issue, and there are other questions regarding the items that immediately spring to mind.

https://www.behance.net/gallery/6808...k-under-skirts

If you had to behead someone who was wearing a ruff and/or an Elizabethan bumroll/wheel skirt, how would you alter the standard axe & block or kneeling & sword arrangement?
If you wear going to hang someone wearing an 18th century pannier dress, how would you modify the gallows to accommodate a victim who takes up as much space as two-three people? For that matter, how would you change a guillotine to accommodate the same issue?

Wow, it is the thing I dream about — the impractice of clothing causing problems or needs to be solved.
Big skirt and trapdoor size, yes; crinoline causing difficulties on climbing ladder; the same big skirts spreading around so wide, so headsman's should step on them to use his sword; panniersc pushing skirts up when girl lies down on guillotine plank

 

often, when the condemned woman was led "in a chemise", the garment was put over her clothes..
the example is related in the execution of the Marquise de Brinvillier

she was made to sit down to put her in the state she had to be in for the honorable amends. As soon as the executioner (4) spoke to her about putting on a chemise because the sentence stated that she would make the honorable amends in a chemise, her modesty was alarmed, imagining that she had to undress for that; but the executioner reassured her, telling her that nothing would be taken away from her and that only the chemise would be put over her clothes

in the case of crinoline dresses, the condemned woman keeps her clothes but the hoop petticoat is removed

it should be noted that at the beginning of the 19th century before the invention of the crinoline hoop, the fullness of the dresses was ensured by an abundant superposition of petticoats

this abundance does not hinder in any way the restraint of the tortured woman

 

Quote by angelique

often, when the condemned woman was led "in a chemise", the garment was put over her clothes..
the example is related in the execution of the Marquise de Brinvillier

she was made to sit down to put her in the state she had to be in for the honorable amends. As soon as the executioner (4) spoke to her about putting on a chemise because the sentence stated that she would make the honorable amends in a chemise, her modesty was alarmed, imagining that she had to undress for that; but the executioner reassured her, telling her that nothing would be taken away from her and that only the chemise would be put over her clothes

in the case of crinoline dresses, the condemned woman keeps her clothes but the hoop petticoat is removed

it should be noted that at the beginning of the 19th century before the invention of the crinoline hoop, the fullness of the dresses was ensured by an abundant superposition of petticoats

this abundance does not hinder in any way the restraint of the tortured woman

Thanks for posting a response. However, the question is really more about how to adjust the execution method/device to accommodate the wide skirts or ruff around the neck.

 

Quote by angelique

often, when the condemned woman was led "in a chemise", the garment was put over her clothes..
the example is related in the execution of the Marquise de Brinvillier

she was made to sit down to put her in the state she had to be in for the honorable amends. As soon as the executioner (4) spoke to her about putting on a chemise because the sentence stated that she would make the honorable amends in a chemise, her modesty was alarmed, imagining that she had to undress for that; but the executioner reassured her, telling her that nothing would be taken away from her and that only the chemise would be put over her clothes

in the case of crinoline dresses, the condemned woman keeps her clothes but the hoop petticoat is removed

it should be noted that at the beginning of the 19th century before the invention of the crinoline hoop, the fullness of the dresses was ensured by an abundant superposition of petticoats

this abundance does not hinder in any way the restraint of the tortured woman

I am not sure about the specific case of Marie Brinvilliers although she was certainly stripped naked for the application of the water torture but many others were certainly disrobed for execution.
Both Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard were sentenced to be burned or beheaded as the king should decide but Henry was dissuaded from such a course, in spite of considerable pressure in the case of Catherine Howard, because it was suggested to him that seeing his ex wife being stripped to his shift by the executioner and then stripped naked by the flames would damage his status as a king. Both were allowed to be disrobed by their ladies in waiting when they were beheaded.
Mary Stewart remarked that she had never been undressed before such and audience or by such helpers when she was undressed to her red shift by the executioners and Jane Grey screamed in horror when the executioner began to remove her outer clothes as she did not realise that she would be executed in her shift. She was calmed and then became distressed again when she could not find the block after being blindfolded.
I think there was a strong element of shaming the condemned when women were undressed to their underwear before being executed.
On another point I have just read in Une Ombre Sur Le Roi Solleil that another lady being put to the torture during the Affair of the Poisons was spared the water torture because she was thought to be too fat and might die. Instead they used the boot to break her legs whilst interrogating her. Her weight did not spare her death at the stake however once she had confessed.

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